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	<title>Comments on: How many were fed at the feeding of the 4000?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.errancy.com/how-many-were-fed-at-the-feeding-of-the-4000/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.errancy.com/how-many-were-fed-at-the-feeding-of-the-4000/</link>
	<description>Does the Bible contain contradictions or errors? Biblical inerrancy examined.</description>
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		<title>By: Errancy</title>
		<link>http://www.errancy.com/how-many-were-fed-at-the-feeding-of-the-4000/comment-page-1/#comment-472</link>
		<dc:creator>Errancy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 21:32:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Agreed. Just trying to cover as many options as possible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed. Just trying to cover as many options as possible.</p>
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		<title>By: Amtiskaw</title>
		<link>http://www.errancy.com/how-many-were-fed-at-the-feeding-of-the-4000/comment-page-1/#comment-471</link>
		<dc:creator>Amtiskaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 20:07:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Your first explanation &quot;no women or children were present&quot; surely can&#039;t be right, since Matthew explicitly mentions them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your first explanation &#8220;no women or children were present&#8221; surely can&#8217;t be right, since Matthew explicitly mentions them.</p>
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		<title>By: Errancy</title>
		<link>http://www.errancy.com/how-many-were-fed-at-the-feeding-of-the-4000/comment-page-1/#comment-470</link>
		<dc:creator>Errancy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 11:13:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.errancy.com/?p=1117#comment-470</guid>
		<description>We certainly need to look at the Greek to reach a view on this:

Matthew 14:21 -  &#945;&#957;&#948;&#961;&#949;&#962; &#969;&#963;&#949;&#953; &#960;&#949;&#957;&#964;&#945;&#954;&#953;&#963;&#967;&#953;&#955;&#953;&#959;&#953; (&quot;men about five thousand&quot;)
Mark 6:44 -  &#960;&#949;&#957;&#964;&#945;&#954;&#953;&#963;&#967;&#953;&#955;&#953;&#959;&#953; &#945;&#957;&#948;&#961;&#949;&#962; (&quot;five thousand men&quot;)
Luke 9:14 - &#969;&#963;&#949;&#953; &#945;&#957;&#948;&#961;&#949;&#962; &#960;&#949;&#957;&#964;&#945;&#954;&#953;&#963;&#967;&#953;&#955;&#953;&#959;&#953; (&quot;about men five thousand&quot;)

Matthew 15:38 -  &#964;&#949;&#964;&#961;&#945;&#954;&#953;&#963;&#967;&#953;&#955;&#953;&#959;&#953; &#945;&#957;&#948;&#961;&#949;&#962; (&quot;four thousand men&quot;)
Mark 8:9 - &#964;&#949;&#964;&#961;&#945;&#954;&#953;&#963;&#967;&#953;&#955;&#953;&#959;&#953; (&quot;four thousand&quot;)

So &#945;&#957;&#948;&#961;&#949;&#962; (&quot;men&quot;) is present in all of the verses except Mark 8:9, where just the number is given.

The key question is whether Mark 8:9&#039;s &quot;4000&quot; implies &quot;4000 men&quot;, &quot;4000 people&quot;, or is ambiguous.

All three positions are represented in mainstream translations: The NIV goes for &quot;men&quot;, the NRSV goes for &quot;people&quot;, and the NASB and ESV go for ambiguity.

I think that preserving the ambiguity is best here, and this should be seen as a possible inconsistency, but certainly not as a flat-out contradiction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We certainly need to look at the Greek to reach a view on this:</p>
<p>Matthew 14:21 &#8211;  &alpha;&nu;&delta;&rho;&epsilon;&sigmaf; &omega;&sigma;&epsilon;&iota; &pi;&epsilon;&nu;&tau;&alpha;&kappa;&iota;&sigma;&chi;&iota;&lambda;&iota;&omicron;&iota; (&#8220;men about five thousand&#8221;)<br />
Mark 6:44 &#8211;  &pi;&epsilon;&nu;&tau;&alpha;&kappa;&iota;&sigma;&chi;&iota;&lambda;&iota;&omicron;&iota; &alpha;&nu;&delta;&rho;&epsilon;&sigmaf; (&#8220;five thousand men&#8221;)<br />
Luke 9:14 &#8211; &omega;&sigma;&epsilon;&iota; &alpha;&nu;&delta;&rho;&epsilon;&sigmaf; &pi;&epsilon;&nu;&tau;&alpha;&kappa;&iota;&sigma;&chi;&iota;&lambda;&iota;&omicron;&iota; (&#8220;about men five thousand&#8221;)</p>
<p>Matthew 15:38 &#8211;  &tau;&epsilon;&tau;&rho;&alpha;&kappa;&iota;&sigma;&chi;&iota;&lambda;&iota;&omicron;&iota; &alpha;&nu;&delta;&rho;&epsilon;&sigmaf; (&#8220;four thousand men&#8221;)<br />
Mark 8:9 &#8211; &tau;&epsilon;&tau;&rho;&alpha;&kappa;&iota;&sigma;&chi;&iota;&lambda;&iota;&omicron;&iota; (&#8220;four thousand&#8221;)</p>
<p>So &alpha;&nu;&delta;&rho;&epsilon;&sigmaf; (&#8220;men&#8221;) is present in all of the verses except Mark 8:9, where just the number is given.</p>
<p>The key question is whether Mark 8:9&#8242;s &#8220;4000&#8243; implies &#8220;4000 men&#8221;, &#8220;4000 people&#8221;, or is ambiguous.</p>
<p>All three positions are represented in mainstream translations: The NIV goes for &#8220;men&#8221;, the NRSV goes for &#8220;people&#8221;, and the NASB and ESV go for ambiguity.</p>
<p>I think that preserving the ambiguity is best here, and this should be seen as a possible inconsistency, but certainly not as a flat-out contradiction.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: WisdomLover</title>
		<link>http://www.errancy.com/how-many-were-fed-at-the-feeding-of-the-4000/comment-page-1/#comment-469</link>
		<dc:creator>WisdomLover</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 09:32:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.errancy.com/?p=1117#comment-469</guid>
		<description>The Greek in Matthew&#039;s account says that those that ate were 4000 men, beside women and children.

The Greek in Mark&#039;s account says that those that ate were 4000.

It does not say 4000 &lt;em&gt;people&lt;/em&gt;. It is possible that Mark intended 4000 men (and wasn&#039;t counting the women and children). The case is Nominative, Masculine, Plural. This, of course, does not guarantee that Mark meant to be referring only to the men. I think that it is typical in ancient languages to use the masculine to refer to mixed gender groups even if the women vastly outnumber the men.

But what he and the other Gospel writers say in the other cases suggests that here:

1. Mark intended 4000 men, when he simply said 4000.
2. Mark was not counting the women and children (as usual).
3. Mark did not mention that he was not counting them.
4. The mix of the crowd was not much different than the mix of any other crowd that gathered around Jesus. We need not assume that it was predominately male.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Greek in Matthew&#8217;s account says that those that ate were 4000 men, beside women and children.</p>
<p>The Greek in Mark&#8217;s account says that those that ate were 4000.</p>
<p>It does not say 4000 <em>people</em>. It is possible that Mark intended 4000 men (and wasn&#8217;t counting the women and children). The case is Nominative, Masculine, Plural. This, of course, does not guarantee that Mark meant to be referring only to the men. I think that it is typical in ancient languages to use the masculine to refer to mixed gender groups even if the women vastly outnumber the men.</p>
<p>But what he and the other Gospel writers say in the other cases suggests that here:</p>
<p>1. Mark intended 4000 men, when he simply said 4000.<br />
2. Mark was not counting the women and children (as usual).<br />
3. Mark did not mention that he was not counting them.<br />
4. The mix of the crowd was not much different than the mix of any other crowd that gathered around Jesus. We need not assume that it was predominately male.</p>
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