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	<title>Comments on: Did Paul stay in Damascus immediately after his conversion, or did he go to Arabia?</title>
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	<link>http://www.errancy.com/did-paul-go-to-arabia/</link>
	<description>Does the Bible contain contradictions or errors? Biblical inerrancy examined.</description>
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		<title>By: WisdomLover</title>
		<link>http://www.errancy.com/did-paul-go-to-arabia/comment-page-2/#comment-340</link>
		<dc:creator>WisdomLover</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 01:08:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.errancy.com/?p=124#comment-340</guid>
		<description>The adverb &quot;Eutheos&quot; (immediately) occurs before the following list:

1. I did not consult with flesh and blood.
2. I did not go to the apostles in Jerusalem.
3. I went to Arabia.

That seems to imply that either &quot;immediately&quot; applies to all the items on the list or just the first. At first blush, the idea that it applies only to the &lt;em&gt;last&lt;/em&gt; (as the NRSV and the NIV translate it) seems perverse.

I suppose one might argue that it &lt;em&gt;can&#039;t&lt;/em&gt; apply to the first two items on the grounds that you can&#039;t immediately &lt;em&gt;not&lt;/em&gt; do something except in a silly vacuous sense, such that Paul might as easily have said that he immediately did not write an epic poem or that he immediately did not milk a cow or anything else you like. 

Such an argument probably &lt;em&gt;does&lt;/em&gt; show that &quot;immediately&quot; cannot go with all the items on the list. If you try that you end up with this:

1&#039;. Immediately, I did not consult with flesh and blood.
2&#039;. Immediately, I did not go to the apostles in Jerusalem.
3&#039;. Immediately, I went to Arabia.
 
When you put it this way, 1&#039; and 2&#039; don&#039;t really make sense. But this falls short of showing that &quot;immediately&quot; must go with the last item.

If you assume that &quot;immediately&quot; goes only with the first item on the list, there is the possibility (presented with varying degrees of clarity by most translators) that the adverb &quot;ou&quot; (not) modifies the adverb &quot;Eutheos&quot;. That is, instead of &quot;immediately, I did not&quot;, you really have &quot;I did not immediately&quot;. So you have this:

1&quot;. I did not immediately consult with flesh and blood.
2&quot;. I did not got to the apostles in Jerusalem.
3&quot;. I went to Arabia.

1&quot;-3&quot; say &lt;em&gt;nothing&lt;/em&gt; about what Paul immediately did. 1&quot; does say what he did not do immediately. But that&#039;s all. On this reading there&#039;s not even a hint of a conflict with the claim that he was in Damascus for a while before his trip to Arabia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The adverb &#8220;Eutheos&#8221; (immediately) occurs before the following list:</p>
<p>1. I did not consult with flesh and blood.<br />
2. I did not go to the apostles in Jerusalem.<br />
3. I went to Arabia.</p>
<p>That seems to imply that either &#8220;immediately&#8221; applies to all the items on the list or just the first. At first blush, the idea that it applies only to the <em>last</em> (as the NRSV and the NIV translate it) seems perverse.</p>
<p>I suppose one might argue that it <em>can&#8217;t</em> apply to the first two items on the grounds that you can&#8217;t immediately <em>not</em> do something except in a silly vacuous sense, such that Paul might as easily have said that he immediately did not write an epic poem or that he immediately did not milk a cow or anything else you like. </p>
<p>Such an argument probably <em>does</em> show that &#8220;immediately&#8221; cannot go with all the items on the list. If you try that you end up with this:</p>
<p>1&#8242;. Immediately, I did not consult with flesh and blood.<br />
2&#8242;. Immediately, I did not go to the apostles in Jerusalem.<br />
3&#8242;. Immediately, I went to Arabia.</p>
<p>When you put it this way, 1&#8242; and 2&#8242; don&#8217;t really make sense. But this falls short of showing that &#8220;immediately&#8221; must go with the last item.</p>
<p>If you assume that &#8220;immediately&#8221; goes only with the first item on the list, there is the possibility (presented with varying degrees of clarity by most translators) that the adverb &#8220;ou&#8221; (not) modifies the adverb &#8220;Eutheos&#8221;. That is, instead of &#8220;immediately, I did not&#8221;, you really have &#8220;I did not immediately&#8221;. So you have this:</p>
<p>1&#8243;. I did not immediately consult with flesh and blood.<br />
2&#8243;. I did not got to the apostles in Jerusalem.<br />
3&#8243;. I went to Arabia.</p>
<p>1&#8243;-3&#8243; say <em>nothing</em> about what Paul immediately did. 1&#8243; does say what he did not do immediately. But that&#8217;s all. On this reading there&#8217;s not even a hint of a conflict with the claim that he was in Damascus for a while before his trip to Arabia.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Errancy</title>
		<link>http://www.errancy.com/did-paul-go-to-arabia/comment-page-2/#comment-46</link>
		<dc:creator>Errancy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 23:40:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.errancy.com/?p=124#comment-46</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s the gist from my lexicon: &quot;periphrastic to indicate the progress of the narrative... usually omitted in translation; older transl. &lt;i&gt;it came to pass&lt;/i&gt;&quot;. That&#039;s all I&#039;ve got for you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s the gist from my lexicon: &#8220;periphrastic to indicate the progress of the narrative&#8230; usually omitted in translation; older transl. <i>it came to pass</i>&#8220;. That&#8217;s all I&#8217;ve got for you.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Amtiskaw</title>
		<link>http://www.errancy.com/did-paul-go-to-arabia/comment-page-2/#comment-45</link>
		<dc:creator>Amtiskaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 22:07:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.errancy.com/?p=124#comment-45</guid>
		<description>But the overwhelming consensus in the translations is that it adds nothing to the meaning: I can&#039;t find any translation that bothers to include it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But the overwhelming consensus in the translations is that it adds nothing to the meaning: I can&#8217;t find any translation that bothers to include it.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Errancy</title>
		<link>http://www.errancy.com/did-paul-go-to-arabia/comment-page-2/#comment-44</link>
		<dc:creator>Errancy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 18:42:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.errancy.com/?p=124#comment-44</guid>
		<description>Immediately on joining the disciples for several days? It may yet work.

Re the possible time gap in Acts 9:19: There is an &quot;&#917;&#947;&#949;&#957;&#949;&#964;&#959; &#948;&#949;&quot; in there, an &quot;it came to pass&quot;, which I think suggests a gap in the narrative. You might be onto something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Immediately on joining the disciples for several days? It may yet work.</p>
<p>Re the possible time gap in Acts 9:19: There is an &#8220;&Epsilon;&gamma;&epsilon;&nu;&epsilon;&tau;&omicron; &delta;&epsilon;&#8221; in there, an &#8220;it came to pass&#8221;, which I think suggests a gap in the narrative. You might be onto something.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Amtiskaw</title>
		<link>http://www.errancy.com/did-paul-go-to-arabia/comment-page-1/#comment-43</link>
		<dc:creator>Amtiskaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 17:58:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.errancy.com/?p=124#comment-43</guid>
		<description>Argh, I&#039;ve been stupid. If there&#039;s a big gap in the time-line then Acts doesn&#039;t make much sense when it says &quot;immediately he began to proclaim Jesus in the synagogues&quot;...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Argh, I&#8217;ve been stupid. If there&#8217;s a big gap in the time-line then Acts doesn&#8217;t make much sense when it says &#8220;immediately he began to proclaim Jesus in the synagogues&#8221;&#8230;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Amtiskaw</title>
		<link>http://www.errancy.com/did-paul-go-to-arabia/comment-page-1/#comment-42</link>
		<dc:creator>Amtiskaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 17:34:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.errancy.com/?p=124#comment-42</guid>
		<description>However... having said that, I now wonder if it&#039;s possible to read a time-lapse in the middle of Acts 9:19:

&quot;and after taking some food, he regained his strength. For several days he was with the disciples in Damascus&quot;

I see from the NET Bible&#039;s notes that it should really read:

&quot;and after taking some food, he regained his strength. &lt;i&gt;It happened that&lt;/i&gt; for several days he was with the disciples in Damascus&quot;

Certainly this sounds to me like it could indicate a gap in the time-line... but that&#039;s me reading it in English.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>However&#8230; having said that, I now wonder if it&#8217;s possible to read a time-lapse in the middle of Acts 9:19:</p>
<p>&#8220;and after taking some food, he regained his strength. For several days he was with the disciples in Damascus&#8221;</p>
<p>I see from the NET Bible&#8217;s notes that it should really read:</p>
<p>&#8220;and after taking some food, he regained his strength. <i>It happened that</i> for several days he was with the disciples in Damascus&#8221;</p>
<p>Certainly this sounds to me like it could indicate a gap in the time-line&#8230; but that&#8217;s me reading it in English.</p>
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		<title>By: Amtiskaw</title>
		<link>http://www.errancy.com/did-paul-go-to-arabia/comment-page-1/#comment-41</link>
		<dc:creator>Amtiskaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 17:14:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.errancy.com/?p=124#comment-41</guid>
		<description>Hmm. Your translation above (&quot;At once I didn&#039;t do X, nor did I do Y, but I did Z&quot;) makes me think the ESV isn&#039;t quite right.

In more natural English, isn&#039;t Paul saying &quot;My immediate action was not X, nor Y, but rather Z&quot;?

You&#039;ve talked me into concluding this is in fact worse than I thought. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm. Your translation above (&#8220;At once I didn&#8217;t do X, nor did I do Y, but I did Z&#8221;) makes me think the ESV isn&#8217;t quite right.</p>
<p>In more natural English, isn&#8217;t Paul saying &#8220;My immediate action was not X, nor Y, but rather Z&#8221;?</p>
<p>You&#8217;ve talked me into concluding this is in fact worse than I thought. :)</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Errancy</title>
		<link>http://www.errancy.com/did-paul-go-to-arabia/comment-page-1/#comment-40</link>
		<dc:creator>Errancy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 14:07:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.errancy.com/?p=124#comment-40</guid>
		<description>I studied NT Greek about a decade ago, but am now very rusty. I have a go, but certainly don&#039;t claim to have any expertise.

Looking at the other places that this word is used (Matthew 4:20, 4:22, 8:3, 13:5, 14:31, etc.) makes me think that Paul couldn&#039;t have preached for a bit and then &quot;immediately&quot; left; in those verses that I&#039;ve checked, &quot;immediately&quot; always describes the very next thing that people do.

I therefore think that the harmonisation relies on accepting an ESV-style reading of Galatians 1:16-17 (i.e. &quot;immediately&quot; doesn&#039;t describe Paul leaving for Arabia), and a loose reading of &quot;when God... reveal[ed] his Son to me... I went away into Arabia&quot;. Taken together, they give enough wiggle-room to harmonise with Acts, leaving a tension but no explicit contradiction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I studied NT Greek about a decade ago, but am now very rusty. I have a go, but certainly don&#8217;t claim to have any expertise.</p>
<p>Looking at the other places that this word is used (Matthew 4:20, 4:22, 8:3, 13:5, 14:31, etc.) makes me think that Paul couldn&#8217;t have preached for a bit and then &#8220;immediately&#8221; left; in those verses that I&#8217;ve checked, &#8220;immediately&#8221; always describes the very next thing that people do.</p>
<p>I therefore think that the harmonisation relies on accepting an ESV-style reading of Galatians 1:16-17 (i.e. &#8220;immediately&#8221; doesn&#8217;t describe Paul leaving for Arabia), and a loose reading of &#8220;when God&#8230; reveal[ed] his Son to me&#8230; I went away into Arabia&#8221;. Taken together, they give enough wiggle-room to harmonise with Acts, leaving a tension but no explicit contradiction.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Amtiskaw</title>
		<link>http://www.errancy.com/did-paul-go-to-arabia/comment-page-1/#comment-39</link>
		<dc:creator>Amtiskaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 13:28:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.errancy.com/?p=124#comment-39</guid>
		<description>Heh. Perhaps I&#039;m being too generous. Regardless of where the word &quot;immediately&quot; goes, I think you&#039;re right that Paul is saying he &quot;immediately&quot; went to Arabia.

So the question is whether we can say that &quot;immediately&quot; is a bit vague and allows for some time preaching, or not.

How good&#039;s your Greek? Do you think the word he uses could allow this?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heh. Perhaps I&#8217;m being too generous. Regardless of where the word &#8220;immediately&#8221; goes, I think you&#8217;re right that Paul is saying he &#8220;immediately&#8221; went to Arabia.</p>
<p>So the question is whether we can say that &#8220;immediately&#8221; is a bit vague and allows for some time preaching, or not.</p>
<p>How good&#8217;s your Greek? Do you think the word he uses could allow this?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Errancy</title>
		<link>http://www.errancy.com/did-paul-go-to-arabia/comment-page-1/#comment-38</link>
		<dc:creator>Errancy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 10:53:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.errancy.com/?p=124#comment-38</guid>
		<description>Yes, if you take the ESV reading then the two accounts can probably be harmonised (there&#039;ll still be a tension, but no contradiction).

You&#039;ve talked me down on this. That&#039;s an atheist persuading a Christian that two biblical texts probably don&#039;t contradict each other; how strange. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, if you take the ESV reading then the two accounts can probably be harmonised (there&#8217;ll still be a tension, but no contradiction).</p>
<p>You&#8217;ve talked me down on this. That&#8217;s an atheist persuading a Christian that two biblical texts probably don&#8217;t contradict each other; how strange. :)</p>
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