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	<title>Comments on: Did David kill Goliath with a sling or a sword?</title>
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	<link>http://www.errancy.com/did-david-kill-goliath-with-a-sling-or-a-sword/</link>
	<description>Does the Bible contain contradictions or errors? Biblical inerrancy examined.</description>
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		<title>By: WisdomLover</title>
		<link>http://www.errancy.com/did-david-kill-goliath-with-a-sling-or-a-sword/comment-page-1/#comment-163</link>
		<dc:creator>WisdomLover</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Mar 2009 14:47:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.errancy.com/?p=298#comment-163</guid>
		<description>I think it is very unlikely that two accounts have been merged. But even if they had, the merging of the accounts did not just passively happen. Some real person had to take it upon himself to merge the texts. That putative editor would not have let a contradiction stand within a single story any more than an original author would have. So the multiple sources hypothesis really can do no work here.

Now, if you look at an interlinear, you&#039;ll see that the entire passage reads in and almost machine-gun style: &quot;and he did A, and he did B, and he did C, and....&quot; In this rat-a-tat-tat, the original contained no verse breaks, no paragraph breaks, no punctuation, no spaces between words, not even any vowels. But there were occasional shifts in the forms of the verbs. If you follow the form shifts to make breaks, you get something like this for 48-51:

And it came to pass that the Philistine arose
&#8195;and he was going
&#8195;and he was drawing near to meet David
And David was making great haste
&#8195;and he was running to the ranks to meet the Philistine
&#8195;and he was putting his hand in his pouch
&#8195;and he was taking out a stone
And he was mightily hurling it
And thus he was causing the Philistine to be smitten on the forehead
&#8195;and the stone was sinking into his forehead
&#8195;and he was falling on his face to the earth
&#8195;and David was prevailing over the Philistine with a sling and stone
And thus he was causing the Philistine to be smitten
And thus he was causing him to die
And in David&#039;s hand was no sword
&#8195;and he was running
&#8195;and he was standing over the Philistine
&#8195;and he was taking his sword
&#8195;and he was drawing her from her scabbard
And he was slaughtering him
&#8195;and he was cutting off his head with her
&#8195;and the Philistines were seeing that their champion had died
&#8195;and they were fleeing

The indented lines represent the places where the text uses a simple imperfect. The non-indented lines are places where some other verb form is used. Now, it seems to me that the indented sections tend to explain or amplify the non-indented lines that precede them. If I am right about this, then all the killing happens &lt;em&gt;after&lt;/em&gt; David has prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone (and it all happens with Goliath&#039;s sword).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it is very unlikely that two accounts have been merged. But even if they had, the merging of the accounts did not just passively happen. Some real person had to take it upon himself to merge the texts. That putative editor would not have let a contradiction stand within a single story any more than an original author would have. So the multiple sources hypothesis really can do no work here.</p>
<p>Now, if you look at an interlinear, you&#8217;ll see that the entire passage reads in and almost machine-gun style: &#8220;and he did A, and he did B, and he did C, and&#8230;.&#8221; In this rat-a-tat-tat, the original contained no verse breaks, no paragraph breaks, no punctuation, no spaces between words, not even any vowels. But there were occasional shifts in the forms of the verbs. If you follow the form shifts to make breaks, you get something like this for 48-51:</p>
<p>And it came to pass that the Philistine arose<br />
&emsp;and he was going<br />
&emsp;and he was drawing near to meet David<br />
And David was making great haste<br />
&emsp;and he was running to the ranks to meet the Philistine<br />
&emsp;and he was putting his hand in his pouch<br />
&emsp;and he was taking out a stone<br />
And he was mightily hurling it<br />
And thus he was causing the Philistine to be smitten on the forehead<br />
&emsp;and the stone was sinking into his forehead<br />
&emsp;and he was falling on his face to the earth<br />
&emsp;and David was prevailing over the Philistine with a sling and stone<br />
And thus he was causing the Philistine to be smitten<br />
And thus he was causing him to die<br />
And in David&#8217;s hand was no sword<br />
&emsp;and he was running<br />
&emsp;and he was standing over the Philistine<br />
&emsp;and he was taking his sword<br />
&emsp;and he was drawing her from her scabbard<br />
And he was slaughtering him<br />
&emsp;and he was cutting off his head with her<br />
&emsp;and the Philistines were seeing that their champion had died<br />
&emsp;and they were fleeing</p>
<p>The indented lines represent the places where the text uses a simple imperfect. The non-indented lines are places where some other verb form is used. Now, it seems to me that the indented sections tend to explain or amplify the non-indented lines that precede them. If I am right about this, then all the killing happens <em>after</em> David has prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone (and it all happens with Goliath&#8217;s sword).</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Errancy</title>
		<link>http://www.errancy.com/did-david-kill-goliath-with-a-sling-or-a-sword/comment-page-1/#comment-162</link>
		<dc:creator>Errancy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Mar 2009 09:55:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.errancy.com/?p=298#comment-162</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m of that opinion too, but even editors tend to clean up obvious contradictions as they edit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m of that opinion too, but even editors tend to clean up obvious contradictions as they edit.</p>
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		<title>By: Amtiskaw</title>
		<link>http://www.errancy.com/did-david-kill-goliath-with-a-sling-or-a-sword/comment-page-1/#comment-161</link>
		<dc:creator>Amtiskaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Mar 2009 09:11:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.errancy.com/?p=298#comment-161</guid>
		<description>&quot;It would be odd for an author to contradict himself in so few words&quot;

The Oxford Bible Commentary is of the opinion that two different accounts have been merged (which would also explain &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.errancy.com/did-saul-know-who-davids-father-was/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;It would be odd for an author to contradict himself in so few words&#8221;</p>
<p>The Oxford Bible Commentary is of the opinion that two different accounts have been merged (which would also explain <a href="http://www.errancy.com/did-saul-know-who-davids-father-was/" rel="nofollow">this</a>.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Errancy</title>
		<link>http://www.errancy.com/did-david-kill-goliath-with-a-sling-or-a-sword/comment-page-1/#comment-160</link>
		<dc:creator>Errancy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Mar 2009 01:16:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.errancy.com/?p=298#comment-160</guid>
		<description>You&#039;ve done a much better job with this than I thought was possible. 

The key question is this: When was there no sword in David&#039;s hand?

We could read &quot;there was no sword in David&#039;s hand&quot; as going with the words immediately before in verse 50, in which case there was no sword in David&#039;s hand when he struck down and killed Goliath. In that case, David struck down and killed Goliath without a sword, and so the subsequent statement that he killed Goliath with a sword introduces a contradiction.

Alternatively, we could read &quot;there was no sword in David&#039;s hand&quot; as going with the words after in verse 51, in which case there was no sword in David&#039;s hand before he ran and stood over the Philistine. In that case, we can read &quot;there was no sword in David&#039;s hand, then David ran and stood over the Philistine; he grasped his sword, drew it out of its sheath, and killed him&quot; as an explanation of (rather than an action subsequent to) the killing in verse 50. On this reading, &quot;striking down the Philistine and killing him&quot; means &quot;striking down the Philistine [with a sling and a stone] and killing him [with a sword]&quot;, and there&#039;s no contradiction.

It would be odd for an author to contradict himself in so few words, so absent any grammatical reason for insisting on the former reading I think I&#039;d better give 1 Samuel the benefit of the doubt here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;ve done a much better job with this than I thought was possible. </p>
<p>The key question is this: When was there no sword in David&#8217;s hand?</p>
<p>We could read &#8220;there was no sword in David&#8217;s hand&#8221; as going with the words immediately before in verse 50, in which case there was no sword in David&#8217;s hand when he struck down and killed Goliath. In that case, David struck down and killed Goliath without a sword, and so the subsequent statement that he killed Goliath with a sword introduces a contradiction.</p>
<p>Alternatively, we could read &#8220;there was no sword in David&#8217;s hand&#8221; as going with the words after in verse 51, in which case there was no sword in David&#8217;s hand before he ran and stood over the Philistine. In that case, we can read &#8220;there was no sword in David&#8217;s hand, then David ran and stood over the Philistine; he grasped his sword, drew it out of its sheath, and killed him&#8221; as an explanation of (rather than an action subsequent to) the killing in verse 50. On this reading, &#8220;striking down the Philistine and killing him&#8221; means &#8220;striking down the Philistine [with a sling and a stone] and killing him [with a sword]&#8220;, and there&#8217;s no contradiction.</p>
<p>It would be odd for an author to contradict himself in so few words, so absent any grammatical reason for insisting on the former reading I think I&#8217;d better give 1 Samuel the benefit of the doubt here.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: WisdomLover</title>
		<link>http://www.errancy.com/did-david-kill-goliath-with-a-sling-or-a-sword/comment-page-1/#comment-157</link>
		<dc:creator>WisdomLover</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:35:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.errancy.com/?p=298#comment-157</guid>
		<description>The English punctuation may be the issue here. Eliminating some of the decorations from the original, we have four main ideas expressed in independent clauses:

1. With a sling and stone David prevailed over Goliath.

2. David struck down and killed Goliath.

3. David had no sword.

4. David took Goliath&#039;s sword and killed him with it.

The NRSV compounds 1-3 and makes 4 a separate sentence. This makes it look like David killed Goliath with nothing but a sling (because he had no sword you see).

The ESV renders this in a more neutral way (though they still compound items 1 and 2):

So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and with a stone, and struck the Philistine and killed him. There was no sword in the hand of David. Then David ran and stood over the Philistine and took his sword and drew it out of its sheath and killed him and cut off his head with it.

None of this punctuation is in the original. It might have read like this:

So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and with a stone. And he struck the Philistine and killed him: there was no sword in the hand of David, but then David ran and stood over the Philistine and took his sword and drew it out of its sheath and killed him and cut off his head with it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The English punctuation may be the issue here. Eliminating some of the decorations from the original, we have four main ideas expressed in independent clauses:</p>
<p>1. With a sling and stone David prevailed over Goliath.</p>
<p>2. David struck down and killed Goliath.</p>
<p>3. David had no sword.</p>
<p>4. David took Goliath&#8217;s sword and killed him with it.</p>
<p>The NRSV compounds 1-3 and makes 4 a separate sentence. This makes it look like David killed Goliath with nothing but a sling (because he had no sword you see).</p>
<p>The ESV renders this in a more neutral way (though they still compound items 1 and 2):</p>
<p>So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and with a stone, and struck the Philistine and killed him. There was no sword in the hand of David. Then David ran and stood over the Philistine and took his sword and drew it out of its sheath and killed him and cut off his head with it.</p>
<p>None of this punctuation is in the original. It might have read like this:</p>
<p>So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and with a stone. And he struck the Philistine and killed him: there was no sword in the hand of David, but then David ran and stood over the Philistine and took his sword and drew it out of its sheath and killed him and cut off his head with it.</p>
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